Astrology Breakdown: Ancient Science Of The Soul & Psyche w/ Debra Silverman | AMP # 465

TRANSCRIPT:

AUBREY MARCUS: Well, Debra. I anticipated starting this podcast saying, I don't believe in astrology because that's how I've spent most of my life. 

DEBRA SILVERMAN: So I've heard. 

AUBREY MARCUS: And I think one of the reasons is I've just never seen something that quite fit what, you know, just the average amateur, I know your birth sign, I anticipate this, or I do a Google search and I see it, and I'm like, yeah, I get a little bit of that, but like, it's much more complex than that, and so it's never really fit me, and I've also not understood the mechanism by which it would work, although I did listen to a speech from Richard Tarnas, who explained that it was this co arising in the cosmos, and so that opened my mind a little bit, but then, to bring us to the present, we just dropped in for almost three hours yesterday, two and a half hours, good, and I'm a believer now. I never thought I'd be here. And so we're starting from a different place than I anticipated. But I'd love to just, first of all, say thank you for that session yesterday, cause it wasn't just astrology. It was like deep shamanic work and working with the elements. And it was really beautiful, really, you know, life changing in many ways. So first of all, thank you. And excited to, you know, speak to those people that may be like me and be like, this is all a bunch of bullshit. This is all the Barnum effect and people trying to apply things that are general to something specific enough. Reading the person. And then also go a little deeper into some of the specifics and things that we've experienced and that's our itinerary for the day.

DEBRA SILVERMAN: It's so funny because in true double Pisces fashion, I'm writing a book that will be coming out in a year in 13 languages and the name of the book is, I Don't Believe in Astrology. So you just nailed it. So that is what I respond to is there's so many people and I understand the skeptics because I was once a skeptic. Like how could it possibly be true and make it really specific for me to your point so I can feel it and not just hear words and jargon because so much of the new age has all these words. We go through these means and we scroll and we listen to all the, but when it touches your heart and it's shamanic and it enters the body and there's a shift that takes place in a real concrete way, that's the difference between talking about astrology and embodying Astrology.

AUBREY MARCUS: Mm hmm. Yeah, that's I think, what it is. And it's my way of knowing, like, this is my epistemology. How do I know what I know? You know, like, what's the process? For me I have to feel it. 

DEBRA SILVERMAN: Yes. 

AUBREY MARCUS: Like it has to come inside my body and I have to feel it. And that was the road that we crossed yesterday. And once I've crossed that road, there's no coming back. Like after I felt God, it's not like, I don't know about God. I mean, I felt it this one time and I go, Oh no, I know. And then I'll feel it more and more times, of course, confirm it. But that's kind of the position that I'm in now. It's like, wow. And also, you know, there's interesting things that we explored, like me having no earth signs in my chart at all. 

DEBRA SILVERMAN: Zero

AUBREY MARCUS: And still exhibiting strong and manifesting a lot of earth qualities. Right. And so I think that was one of the reasons that I was like, I don't know if I believe in this because there's complexities about myself that only with like the master's touch. And I know you would, like any master, you'd be like, I'm just a student, blah, blah, blah. We get it. But nonetheless, that master's. I was able to, like, bring me deeper into the chart to help me understand.

DEBRA SILVERMAN: So the first book I wrote was called The Missing Element, and when you're missing an element, it doesn't mean you don't have it. It means that you already did in a past life, and this lifetime they said enough with that. If we gave you too much earth, think of what you would have been like. If they would have given you earth. So some people, my best friend owns a lumberyard, she has no earth in her chart, but she works around wood all day. So it doesn't mean when you're missing an element, you don't have it. It does mean it's a lesson. It's teaching. You've either come in with an advanced version or you're suffering and learning at the beginning level. So it's always extreme. But in your case, your earth element, I mean, I was in awe. I was writing it down, writing all the things that you've accomplished. I was like, this guy has no earth because God said, don't give him anymore. Just think of how worked out you would have been if you were a really grounded guy. 

AUBREY MARCUS: Yeah

DEBRA SILVERMAN: It's true isn’t it?

AUBREY MARCUS: Yeah. That's a very interesting place to put. All right. So we have a couple of things I want to talk about. One is I want to go through the elements and give people who don't understand how the elements affect a person and what they really mean. I want to talk about that. And then I also want to take a step back because we just brought in this concept of reincarnation and part of the purpose of this, which is the learning of different lessons throughout this life. And so, first of all, just to zoom out the furthest, like what are your thoughts and feelings about, and maybe known beliefs or just a gnosis about how our souls incarnate. And what the purpose of this life is. 

DEBRA SILVERMAN: I love that question. I knew, you know how when you do podcasts, people ask the same questions. I knew you weren't going to do that. You started with my favorite question. I think there's a design, said the astrologer. The astrology suggests, as Einstein said, God's not playing with dice. It's not random. There's an event that occurs. There's a whole system around it. And the stars are directly related to the karma that you have been handed from past lives. I don't think there's a mystery anymore, that there's a continuum, that there's a spiral. I mean, if we have to debate that with the wrong audience.

AUBREY MARCUS: No, I mean, and it's been like really conclusively shown in the University of Virginia's work on reincarnation people, thousands of people who remember details of past lives. That would be impossible unless there was a continuity of consciousness. 

DEBRA SILVERMAN: Well, the easiest version is the Tibetans, because every time there's an incarnation of a Rinpoche, especially at the highest level, they tell their attendant where they're coming in their next life. And there's been films made and documents very clear that they know what their name will be, where they're going to be. And even the Dalai Lama is incarnated 13 times and tells his attendant next lifetime I'm coming. I'll be raised in, ‘name the city’, tell them. It's crazy. So there's no mystery there. But the better question is, how does astrology dance with the karma of the last lifetime? So all I can suggest, and none of this is from concrete evidence. This is all my intuition, that there is a promise that gets made based on the chart, which I can look at yours and say, you promised this life you would do relationship, that your area of expertise, Saturn in Libra. So I can look at one indicator on the chart to give me information about what was the agreement. And now I can't tell you how to go backwards and tell you what you did in past lives, but I can tell you in this lifetime, that was your promise, that you would rewrite and update the notion of matriarchy or what is that called marriage in classical terms that you were going to. And I know that this is a controversial topic we addressed, but that's part of your promise and everyone has one. You can look at the chart and say, by looking at where Saturn is, what was the promise this person made? Now that's very simple astrology, I just simplified it. 

AUBREY MARCUS: Right. 

DEBRA SILVERMAN: And I make astrology simple, because I'm answering the question you're asking. What are you doing here? 

AUBREY MARCUS: Right. 

DEBRA SILVERMAN: Like, why did you incarnate? What is the purpose of incarnation if not to evolve? To continually wake up inside the dream, and then play the role of the joy maker, of the lover, of the manifester, of the artist, like, you get to choose, but we can't remember. 

AUBREY MARCUS: You know what's interesting is, so that was a big piece that came out, was that one of my soul's promises was to re understand and re imagine relationships. And, you know, really bring forth the future of what love and relationship might look like. Right. And I've felt that, you know, and what's interesting is I had a transmission with a very powerful medicine woman who went into a full trance and made me bow my head. She was in a full trance or in a medicine ceremony. And I bowed my head and she transmitted this journey of my soul's evolution. And what was very interesting is I saw all of these flashes of like lifetimes lived and it was like, but it played out as almost like one story. And the story was, that I was a lover and a bard and I was like a poet and a bard 

DEBRA SILVERMAN: Oh, really?

AUBREY MARCUS: And a singer and a lover. And then some bad people or bad dark forces of some sort came and they killed my love and burned my village and then I became a warrior and then I became a warrior, but I was so filled with vengeance and wrath that I kept killing and killing and killing until I became like a monster 

DEBRA SILVERMAN: Like that guy?

AUBREY MARCUS: Well, I mean, hopefully that guy was a noble, noble samurai, but I don't know.

DEBRA SILVERMAN:Right, they weren't noble.

AUBREY MARCUS: I didn't see, I didn't see inside that armor, but he has dragons and a heart on there somewhere. So 

DEBRA SILVERMAN: That's true. 

AUBREY MARCUS: So maybe he was good. Maybe he was one of the good ones

DEBRA SILVERMAN: The warrior

AUBREY MARCUS: But the warrior. So definitely the warrior, but I extended beyond. It was like, it wasn't just, I got the revenge for the killer of my beloved, I kept chasing down and burning down all the villages of where he came. It was like that, like it went dark. And then the medicine woman just purged started vomiting and I started getting nauseous, like purging that. And then I saw myself make the turn, recognized like this is too far. And then, I saw myself now in the reclamation of that lover. But from this post-tragic lens of having gone through the journey. And so now, you know, seeing that, it's like, I still have a lot of that warrior in me. It's a part of my soul's path. But really it's about reclaiming the lover at a higher level.

DEBRA SILVERMAN: Wow. That made so much sense in our conversation yesterday. It's the warrior's stance to go for extremes and to fight without knowing that he's fighting for love. 

AUBREY MARCUS: Yeah

DEBRA SILVERMAN: That’s the confusion in stress. That's Aries. You have a very strong first house, which is Aries, and it's the warrior, and he forgets why he's fighting. He gets so caught in the energy and the chi and we all know people like this, they've got a temper and their show offs and they're loud and they're big. And then you have to say like, who are you showing off for until they realize it's for their soul to be the example of the warrior, the protector, the provider. It's a real reframe. So I see you doing that with the male energies, rewriting the lover, Libra. Opposite side Aries with the strength of your character. 

AUBREY MARCUS: Yeah. 

DEBRA SILVERMAN: That was a funny assignment you'd picked. 

AUBREY MARCUS: Yeah, well, and I think the beauty of it is because I can speak to the warrior because I have enough of it in me where they can see like, Oh, Tadfa Masih, like I am that too. You know, like you and I, like, I see enough of myself and I can say, and here's the path of the lover. Here's the path of like deepest, deepest intimacy because reality is a relationship, right? It's like, this is

DEBRA SILVERMAN: Certainly is in your chart.

AUBREY MARCUS: This is what it is. 

DEBRA SILVERMAN: You have definitely an indicator in your chart with Jupiter and Saturn. You had two planets standing next to each other in a relationship. One is the life lesson we talked about Saturn, but right next with the same degree is a planet that's a hundred times the size of earth, it's Jupiter. It's giant with sitting on your life lesson going, you're going to do this big. You're not going to. And so publicly, I mean, you've had some real, I can imagine even for me when we started, I was like, tell me about what you do in a relationship. And as I heard your heart, I was like, okay, I'm learning from you. I'm adjusting what I thought was what I consider my norm and including yours. And that is the nature of astrology. It's accepting other people's realities with curiosity. Like I don't know how to do what you do. I don't understand the nature of a new relationship, but I'm curious. And this is what decides if we're going to evolve this life. That's why this podcast is so popular. How much can we listen and learn and ask questions and scratch our heads and do plant medicine and make us nuts so we can reevaluate our old thought processes that are stale. So you're really, thank you. And that's not an easy path. 

AUBREY MARCUS: No, it's not an easy path. 

DEBRA SILVERMAN: There's nothing about you that's easy. 

AUBREY MARCUS: No, I didn't choose the easy way. And I wouldn't have it that way. You know, I mean, I wouldn't have it any other way. Like, I know myself the best. When I put myself up against an adversary or obstacle or challenge or something where I have to rise to the occasion.

DEBRA SILVERMAN: Yes. 

AUBREY MARCUS: In the doldrums, I can get lazy. I can get addicted to the easy way. I can start to lose my way. And certainly some of that got highlighted as well. I was like, ah, you know, I'm not addicted to it. And I don't have an addictive personality because I can stop anything when I want, which I can, but I don't. And you had called me right the fuck out on that. And I was like, Oh, yeah, I guess just being able to 

DEBRA SILVERMAN: Exactly. 

AUBREY MARCUS: Doesn't mean that I still have an addictive personality. 

DEBRA SILVERMAN: Double personality. Right. I think there's a real challenge right now on the planet for the people that don't live like you live on the edge with intensity, they misinterpret what could be mundane or boring as unproductive or unsuccessful or they turn in on themselves. Like Aubrey Marcus does that. What about when the ego gets triggered? That side of the fence, the people that are just doing ordinary life and took the mundane and made it beautiful and are just having a regular job. Do not underestimate the soul's evolution in the presence of simplicity. 

AUBREY MARCUS: Yeah

DEBRA SILVERMAN: On the other hand, there's characters like you and me who have reached a certain level of public acclaim that are out there looking like, and we are taking a hard ball. Like we're playing right on the front edge. We got the lights on, check this out. And neither one is better or worse. But the confusion is, our society values the ego with so much attention. And so it should. It certainly pays and it makes us interested and we watch movies and we watch football players and we're like, look at that. And then back at the ranch, they're sitting in the audience going, what about me? There's no difference. The soul is evolving on its path based on the chart and yours is big. That's Jupiter on your Saturn, your life lesson so giant, you did it for all of us. So thank you for being willing to be seen taking on the storyline, opening up our minds, talking about when I grew up, cause I'm older than I look, plant medicine was, first of all, there was no such thing as play. It was called drugs then in the good old days. And we were all secretive about it. No one was allowed to go on a podcast and tell people that ayahuasca wasn't even a word in our vocabulary. So I want to thank you because you're pioneering as you would in this chart in a big way to give us permission to get out of the old story.

AUBREY MARCUS: Yeah. Well, thank you for that acknowledgement and you do take a lot of arrows. I remember 2010, I went on Joe Rogan's podcast and talked about my ayahuasca journeys and for about two months and then for the next two years, every third comment was like, go back to the jungle. You fucking hippie. You fucking druggie, you know, blah, blah, blah. But what's funny is like, yeah, I don't get that anymore. You know, like culture has shifted and caught up. And that was one of the reflections you had is like, there's some aspect of me that has the blessing and I don't take credit for these blessings and especially now that I know how much I've come in in my assignment like I'm getting continual blessings and assignments 

DEBRA SILVERMAN: From the future 

AUBREY MARCUS: From the future 

DEBRA SILVERMAN: Mercury, Aquarius

AUBREY MARCUS: Really like that's that so explain what that is in my chart

DEBRA SILVERMAN: So in the chart there's different parts of our character, the sun is our personnel, everybody knows her sun sign, the moon is our inner world, it's at night. And yours is in Sag, which makes you funny and witty and sarcastic. And then this particular topic is Mercury. How does the mind work? What's the nature of your thought processes? Yours is in the future. It's in Aquarius, the most exalted position, a memory that's really strong. We talked about that. A fascination with everything that's not normal, like cannot stand following, always three steps ahead of everyone, wondering where everybody is. Why aren't they getting it? So that's Mercury in Aquarius. Mine is the opposite. Mine's Mercury in Taurus. I'm really slow. Honestly, you can't tell by looking. It has a long time for me to get something. I have to sit on it and listen. You're like, whoo, wait, so I had to learn from me, permission to really take things in and slowly and not think I was dumb and you on the other hand have to not be arrogant and think that you're so smart because your mind's going way past ours. So this is the indicator, mercury, simple, and it's something that gets overrated. We hear mercury retrograde, which you probably have poo pooed. So did I, that was so stupid, but we're in one right now and everything that could go wrong goes wrong. My airplane was delayed, your car tire blew, whatever, there's all these stupid, and it's really true. First I was like, because I'm so practical, like this astro, I was like you. This astrology shit, come on, too many back of magazines and too many people playing tricks. And then after the years have gone by, and I'm at decades and decades of this, Mercury is the planet that describes the thought process and yours is in the future. It's in Aquarius, so it gives you the gift, but it also gives you a curse.  Because no one understands until we catch up. So notice the zeitgeist is now microdosing and psilocybin, it's all words that have become part of our public. And when I was growing up, oh my, secrets. You couldn't tell people, I made a list, don't tell anyone, of things I've never told anyone about my medicine and how I used medicine very particular, like I don't have, because I'm so grounded or I try to be, that’s not true. I'm such a flake that I had to learn to ground, and I practice it, so I've really kept myself grounded because I'm really not, I just really learned the practice of earth, for example. But there have been moments in my life, major moments, initiations I would say, where I secretly went off and did medicine.

AUBREY MARCUS: Do you have that list because you want to talk about them? 

DEBRA SILVERMAN: Well, I'm a little scared, tell the truth. But I'm going to tell you one of the major ones. 

AUBREY MARCUS: Yes, please.

DEBRA SILVERMAN: I've not gone public with this. 

AUBREY MARCUS: Yes, please. 

DEBRA SILVERMAN: This is new information. I'm going to skip to probably the most significant one. 

AUBREY MARCUS: Mm hmm.

DEBRA SILVERMAN: I was in my late 20s living in Hawaii, and I had a friend who lived on the island who was Native, and he knew the whole island, and he loved to take psilocybin when we went hiking. But I was too scared, because I was like, I just didn't trust myself. So for months, he took me all over the island, doing this incredible, in the waterfalls, and being naked. We were just friends. We had the most amazing time. And finally, one day, I got the clue. I need to do the mushroom. So he made a big pot, a serious pot of tea.

AUBREY MARCUS: Yeah.

DEBRA SILVERMAN: It was during a new moon. I was watching the sun and moon come together. We were on a hill in the south part of Kauai. And I swear to you, and you'll believe me, I heard a voice specifically talking to me out of the sky with me leaning back, him sitting next to me. And they said, we're going to tell you your purpose that goes on. First thing they said was, you're here to teach people how to listen. I was like, listen? And then they said it again and I screamed, listen to what? And then he said, don't talk to them like that. And I was like, did you hear anything? And he was like, no, but he was watching me having this whole conversation. That was the first. And the second thing they told me was the planet was going through an initiation over the next hundred years. And it was about the emotional body and how prone we were to being addicted and being anxious and being scared. And that this whole emotional thing was going to have to be tamed. I didn't get a directive, but I got that. And the third was, this is the weird part, and you must go have a child. And I had made a decision never to have children. And I said, what? And they were like right now. And I was like, with Harry. 

AUBREY MARCUS: And you looked over to your naked friend

DEBRA SILVERMAN: But I was married at the time.

AUBREY MARCUS: And his cock just rose up to beat the sun.

DEBRA SILVERMAN: No. And you're making stuff up, Mr. Pisces. This is, no, no, it's not how it went. 

AUBREY MARCUS: Oh, that's my sense. 

DEBRA SILVERMAN: I like your story. Yes, but this is the truth I was like, and they said no. And then, I was married at the time, I went home, my husband was in London, called him from Hawaii and said we had made a pact that we weren't having children. I said, I did mushrooms and I heard a loud message to go have children. And he was like, well, they didn't tell me. We went back to London. I went back. We made love once. I was pregnant. So that was one of the most significant. I don't tell people that story. 

AUBREY MARCUS: Yeah. 

DEBRA SILVERMAN: Fast forward. This gets crazy. When my son was turning 13 for his bar mitzvah, I gave him the gift of an artist to come into his room and paint anything he wanted. And he had this little cove where his bed went and he chose to paint mushrooms. He did this whole unbelievable moral mural with, yeah, I didn't tell him till years later. Like. So, point being that there's messages, yes, I couldn't tell people that story, I did listen and obey, and part of my series of stories is many times, including my ayahuasca journey that I don't often talk about, I've only done it twice, but it was a directive and clarity, and I use the medicine in these moments, which I can make a note of, to actually give me direction to follow, and I remembered every single trip with messages, so I always think less is more, said the elder.

AUBREY MARCUS: Yeah. 

DEBRA SILVERMAN: And for some people like you, you can manage to be in those worlds with so much comfort. For me, it's like a seatbelt on, Oh my God, where are we going? So I'm very cautious. And I do recognize the power of the transparency between the worlds. 

AUBREY MARCUS: Yeah. 

DEBRA SILVERMAN: How do we get on the other side of the veil? 

AUBREY MARCUS: Yeah. 

DEBRA SILVERMAN: If we don't use medicine

AUBREY MARCUS: Thank you for sharing those stories. Like, I appreciate that. And you know, I've had so many unbelievably powerful gifts and messages, even very practical stuff like the reason this studio exists and I have the money to create it and all of this was because I built Onnit. Now, Onnit is a hangover supplement company. And then I went to do ayahuasca for the first time. And it was actually the night of the second journey. So it was a series of three and the first one was crazy. I've told these stories many times, but on that night of the second journey, it showed like the spirit of ayahuasca showed me that I had to pivot. And get rid of all of the hangover supplements and switch over and put everything into alpha brain and showed me how to change my marketing, like very, very practical, tangible things about exactly what I needed to do. And if I did exactly what it said, like that would be the beating heart that would provide the resources for everything that I was going to build and create. And sure enough, like after that journey, you know, several months later, I followed directions and then Onnit was birth. So I tell all of these crazy stories about visions and battles with demons and all kinds of crazy things. But there's also really, really practical advice. 

DEBRA SILVERMAN: Well, it's so interesting because in your chart, I told you this yesterday, Neptune is the planet of drugs or altered states. It's at the very top of the chart when you were born in the house of the career that you would use medicine, and it's sitting right next to your moon. So your emotional body activates when you're on the medicine in a professional 10th house Capricorn, see it’s all jargon. The short answer is that you're supposed to be serving medicine in the form of Onnit, which I told you I've been taking for seven years. 

AUBREY MARCUS: Yeah. 

DEBRA SILVERMAN: I had no idea. It was you. So funny. And it has made such a difference. And I think part of why I haven't aged and why I've been so healthy. 

AUBREY MARCUS:  I know you told me your age and I was like, what the

DEBRA SILVERMAN: You remember?

AUBREY MARCUS: Yeah, 67, right? 

DEBRA SILVERMAN: I'm almost 70. 

AUBREY MARCUS: Yeah. 

DEBRA SILVERMAN: Good memory. See? Mercury in Aquarius. So, yes, in your chart you have no Earth, but there is an indicator that the medicine speaks to you at a practical level because of the purpose.

AUBREY MARCUS: Right. 

DEBRA SILVERMAN: Like, your service to us has been echoed through your ability to hear, manifest. And then there's consequences. People all think you're a little crazy and you've gone off the path, but it doesn't seem to bug you. 

AUBREY MARCUS: No.

DEBRA SILVERMAN: Resilience. 

AUBREY MARCUS: I really trust myself and I trust myself to fall and get back up. I trust myself to go too far and go, whoops, like explore that boundary. Now I know it's a boundary, but the part of my nature is I look at all the boundaries and I go, maybe, you know, like someone says something and I go maybe, and then I test it and sometimes I'll cross the boundary and it'll be nothing but broken glass and I'll be like, Oh fuck. Like that was a good boundary, you know, hat tip to the people who made it. And other times I'll look at something and I'll be like, this is an old and stale, dogmatic rule that actually needs to be updated. This table needs to be flipped. 

DEBRA SILVERMAN: That's so double Pisces. Your function in this life is to stretch and go past the boundaries, and there's consequences.

AUBREY MARCUS: Yeah, no doubt. 

DEBRA SILVERMAN: Yeah. And in the meantime, you can't not not be you. This is where astrology comes in. Like if I said to you, stop that, you'd be like, How am I going to not be myself? And everyone listening to this has a personality type based on their chart that when given permission, like you're this way, it's like a relief. Like someone just tell me it's okay that I'm all fucked up. I was going to write my new title for my new book. You're fucked up and I still like you, but they wouldn't let me use it. They wouldn't let me use it. But it's just that, that every chart says there's quirky quirks, there's parts of your character that are really boundaries are an issue for double Pisces and knowing that naming it without judgment. Like letting that be, that's your truth. What a relief and saying, yeah, I have no boundaries. What a loser. I can't believe I've made so many mistakes. Like you are supposed to make mistakes. 

AUBREY MARCUS: Yeah, and I certainly have. And I'm sure I continually will. One of the things is we went through all of the different elements. I want you to talk about the elements, but there was a function of the certain elements that actually needed to be brought into the forefront to help me, you know, with certain levels of discernment. And certain areas of discernment, I'm very sharp. And certain I'm very loose and flexible because of my lack of boundary kind of nature. And there was certain parts that I've also become aware that, like, Oh, shit, like I need to get some things together and really discern and really create the right next steps 

DEBRA SILVERMAN: And pacing was a big topic 

AUBREY MARCUS: Yeah, for sure. So go through the elements and we can talk about my story or talk about it generally.

DEBRA SILVERMAN: So in that book, the missing element, there's no astrology in it at all. I didn't bring it to you, but in that book you figure out what your missing element is and then you read about that and you cultivate it. So let me go through the four of them. So the first one, which you are so good at immediately, you moved right into it was water. And water is the element that can sit silently, feel their feelings. I mean, you had tears within minutes. Not everyone can do that. So that's the Pisces. Water is the element.

AUBREY MARCUS: I can't stop it. 

DEBRA SILVERMAN: No, no. 

AUBREY MARCUS: My cry percentage on podcasts is embarrassingly high. 

DEBRA SILVERMAN: Yeah, it doesn't surprise me. It's your function. It's your soul. The rising sign is your soul. So you're not only ego is Pisces, the sun signs, the ego, but the rising sign or the ascendant is also Pisces. So your ego and your soul are the same. It's very unusual because you're double Pisces. So therefore your emotional receptivity, it's a soulful urge. You can't resist it. So water is the first element. All the people out there who are sensitive and mushy and they want to stay home and they cuddle and they don't want to come out of the house and they just love being with their favorite people only and they love to get high and they love to be altered and they want to drink and any way to alter this reality to take off the assault because they're so sensitive and they care so much that they tend to either cry a lot or they go into ice. And they can't feel anymore. And they get numb. Same as to a lot of men with water. So, it creates 

AUBREY MARCUS: As a kind of protective mechanism to sensitivity. 

DEBRA SILVERMAN: It's embarrassing, you're so good at it. Most people don't like to cry. For the first time I met you, we were with Aaron Rodgers at that big event in Denver. That big drug event? What's that called? 

AUBREY MARCUS: The MAPS, the MAPS conference. 

DEBRA SILVERMAN: That was so bad. I should have just said that. The big MAPS conference that I couldn't believe I was at. And you were sitting in the front and you cried. I saw, I thought, this man's amazing. You cried. 

AUBREY MARCUS: Yeah, in front of a big audience.

DEBRA SILVERMAN: Yeah, that's when I knew. So that is an unusual response for a male or anyone to feel comfortable. Some people block it and it freezes and it becomes stilted, uncomfortable, I don't want to be around people, I'm embarrassed. You stepped over your embarrassment and the high road of water is psychic. It's intuitive. It's a mediumship. It's going between the worlds. It's being able to feel things without knowing how you know. It's hearing voices. It's having dreams. It's a lot of what Pisces is all about. The mystical, magical realm that is not measured by the hard stuff. So at the low level, they're self conscious, embarrassed, and they don't tell anyone. They can't figure out what their dreams mean. They just want to get high and get out of here, 

AUBREY MARCUS: Mm hmm.

DEBRA SILVERMAN: Help. And at the high level, they're artists. They're painters. They're musicians. They hear the tune because they can hear the celestial tunes. They can write, they can inspire, they write poetry. Their gift is so magical and their lovers. It is the lover. It's the part of us that wants to get out of the physical world into the magical without all the words, 

AUBREY MARCUS: Right 

DEBRA SILVERMAN: Shut up already. 

AUBREY MARCUS: Right, right. Yeah. I mean, that was a big, that was also something that I've known as well, but like, lovemaking for me is one of the greatest escapes, you know, obviously the medicine path and it's not just escape. There's so much information, so much download, but like for me, like everything falls away when I make love

DEBRA SILVERMAN: Ego’s gone, 

AUBREY MARCUS: Everything, it’s full merger, it's union

DEBRA SILVERMAN: Orgasm is a small death. The end of the ego, the release of the stupid ego trying to control, 

AUBREY MARCUS: La petit mort. 

DEBRA SILVERMAN: Exactly. So that's the water. Isn't this great we're talking about sex and drugs. This is water. 

AUBREY MARCUS: Yeah. 

DEBRA SILVERMAN: Water is the yum, yum factor. It's the ability to be in the body and feel both pain or pleasure without resistance. That's a high road. 

AUBREY MARCUS: Yeah

DEBRA SILVERMAN: That's why in ayahuasca there's so many tears and people are throwing up. That's water. It's like purging, get this stuff out of you and stop being so full of shit.

AUBREY MARCUS: Yeah

DEBRA SILVERMAN: That’s Ayahuasca goes, Okay, we're done. 

AUBREY MARCUS: And if you can't, if you block yourself from feeling the pain 

DEBRA SILVERMAN: It's worse.

AUBREY MARCUS: You block yourself from feeling the pleasure 

DEBRA SILVERMAN: Yes

AUBREY MARCUS: You become numb and I've recognized that like numbness is the enemy. I've known that for a long time for me because I felt that well I could just get numb, but then I can't actually feel the beauty of this life, which is like really what I live for is the beauty of everything 

DEBRA SILVERMAN: And the low level water is an addiction because we so want to get away. We want to escape. We so want to go home to the oneness, as you called her, the union that we diminish our relationship with earth, which we'll get to in a minute. Important to balance all four of them. There's four wheels in a car. There's four elements. One element goes down and the whole system goes off. So you want to have water, but not at the expense of any of the others. We'll keep going. 

AUBREY MARCUS: Yeah. All right. Let's keep going. 

DEBRA SILVERMAN: So water, nine months in a womb. It's always the beginning of every cycle. You wake up in the morning, you brush your teeth, you take a shower, water is always the first thing at a party. Would you like something to drink? First thing people say, water always starts everything. Then we go to air, the baby has the first breath. And this is where communication came in. This is in our process. We actually went to Earth, but I'm going to talk about air. Hold on. Let's do this right. Because we went through 4E yesterday and we went to Earth next. But I'm going to take you to, the natural rhythm is first comes water, nine months, and then comes the breath. And this is consciousness. So now we're talking and we're thinking and we're doing podcasts and we're communicating and relationships and people and so interesting and who are we in love with and who aren't we and decisions and I'm so confused and I want to write it down. I'm going to call my friend. I changed my mind. I should call my friend. No, I can't remember what I said. I need therapy. I'm so confused. Did I write it down? Did I leave my keys somewhere? I can't remember. It's the unbelievable airheads in the world at their worst who spin around and they're so interesting and I'm not going to say your wife has a lot of this, and they talk a lot and they use their hands and they have creative ideas and they've got many options and they change their mind. They have a new idea and they want to hear your opinion. So they put the podcast on and another podcast and by the time they're done, they can't remember what they said. So at their worst, they have too much intellectual appetite, which makes the mind spinny and they can get very confused and they say yes to everyone to be nice. So they become the nice man and they become the one that's so socially graceful and so generous and so kind because they're seeking approval. That's the level where the psychology at the truth of error is very decisive, has a relationship to their emotional body water so they know what their intuition said and that's where their decisions are coming from.

AUBREY MARCUS: Right. 

DEBRA SILVERMAN: But if the water and the air aren't connected because secretly water was hidden behind and now air is all dingy, the wisdom is, no, no, I'm listening to my message. I'm paying attention to whatever, I got my message from my meditation. And now I'm going to speak to you from truth. I'm going to use my words to be honest.

AUBREY MARCUS: That was a big thing that kind of came through in the session was I left that and I was like the purity of Aubrey-ness. Like the purity and the purity is truth. It's just straight. It's just the straight truth. And I've always sought to be there, but I can also sometimes hold back a little bit of the truth. I'm not dishonest and I've never been a liar. But you know, I'll be selective and strategic, but there's a pure Aubrey that isn't any of that. That's just like, this is exactly it. And full love, you know, you don't have to be mean with the truth, full love, but full truth. And like, that's the full, pure, Aubrey, that's the air King, 

DEBRA SILVERMAN: That's right.

AUBREY MARCUS: The air King needed to actually sit in rather than the air courtesan who is just trying to please and trying to manage and all of these other things. 

DEBRA SILVERMAN: And then getting indecisive and saying yes to what too many times, exactly. So the right use of air is the choice factor from a mind who is honest to your point that speaks truth and that has the ability to be authentic. So they're speaking right out of their gut and out of their truth. And then those people, we love to hear their stories and we love to hear their poems and we love to hear their words because they're just like soothing balm. When words are poetry and we're kind to each other, and we really use the air relationship, to be the doorway to actually get closer and to bump and then get closer, that's the high road of error. The low road is, I don't want to do relationship, I'm sick of dating. People are so stupid. All those low level error people that they just get really dippy and they're superficial and they're not real and you feel like they're faking it and they're all dressed up and they look so cute, but they're not real. That's the discrepancy is who's got their words of truth that are speaking from a deep place of knowing as compared to that whole social media 

AUBREY MARCUS: Which is the connection with the air and the water, just making sure that that deep intuition, the soul's knowing is matching the words. 

DEBRA SILVERMAN: And that's why people meditate. That's why they do medicine to keep in touch with the water. When you get direction from the highest realm, then the mind can make decisions, but you have to know how to listen. 

AUBREY MARCUS: And you have to follow instructions, you know, and for the most part I have and then sometimes I haven't and we talked about that as well. Like I got a clear instruction to take 40 days and just be out on the land and in this purification of Aubrey and I've just been like, yeah, yeah, yeah, certainly. I will certainly get to that at some point later. And it's I've pushed it off for years, years. And now it's like

DEBRA SILVERMAN: Hello. 

AUBREY MARCUS: I'm not. And that's why the session yesterday was life changing. It was like, okay, there's no more putting this off. 

DEBRA SILVERMAN: And that's what happens with clean air, which is my gift this lifetime as a therapist. I have a master's in clinical psychology. So I learned how to work with the psyche of somebody by using words to free them. So if I ask the right questions, and we engage at a really authentic level, you're going to speak to yourself. I was telling you what I designed that process for E4 was so people would tell themselves the truth so I didn't have to, and that's good, healthy air. Typically air people are like talking, talking, they have so many ideas and they change their mind, you're so confused. When someone speaks with clarity because they know their truth. It's like what blue is like. It's so hard to not listen. And the words get strung together and you're like, what'd she say? Like, it's a tickling of the brain that comes from the deepest, highest place, not the ego doing the typical, all the memes, all the social media, all the Instagram, all that stuff is air. And you can't remember it until it becomes your words.

AUBREY MARCUS: Right.

DEBRA SILVERMAN: And that's what I really want to acknowledge. Your gift is your mercury and Aquarius is a rebel. You can't follow and you keep sharing with us your process. Mercury and Aquarius, your air is not a follower. And by the way, you can't get air to stay still anyway, it sneaks out of everywhere. It's always wiggling, air people are always wiggling

AUBREY MARCUS: Right

DEBRA SILVERMAN: And yours is rebellious. But until you become obedient, I love what you said, when you're hearing a message and you didn't listen. And then I had to tickle that out of you. And then you were like telling yourself, what are you doing? 

AUBREY MARCUS: Yeah, totally. 

DEBRA SILVERMAN: It was just like that.

AUBREY MARCUS: Yeah. 

DEBRA SILVERMAN: It's clean air. 

AUBREY MARCUS: Yeah. It's like, it's purifying that distortion that can get in the way. Because when you have a high faculty and competency in the air, it's a double edged sword. Because you can justify anything and you can actually explain anything to anybody except for your truest, highest self. And, you know, we'll get to that in the fire. You really called forward my highest self to actually burn away. 

DEBRA SILVERMAN: Yes. 

AUBREY MARCUS: And purify every other thought that wasn't there. And 

DEBRA SILVERMAN: Boy, did you show up? 

AUBREY MARCUS: Yeah, for sure. 

DEBRA SILVERMAN: As I expected.

AUBREY MARCUS: Yeah. Thank you. And really because I'm not afraid of the truth, and I'm not afraid of being wrong, and I'm not attached to being right. 

DEBRA SILVERMAN: See, if everyone could use fresh air like that and say out loud, I'm okay with being wrong, and I want to tell the truth, and I'm not scared. If people could use the air to say to their partners, I feel like we're really not connected, like just tell the truth, I feel like we're really not connecting. I feel like I really want to be honest with you. I feel like I'm not being myself. If people could use that language in really raw terms, we'd all be so vulnerable and honest. 

AUBREY MARCUS: Yeah, it's interesting with the fit for service community, you know, I'm leading a class called romantically fit and the assignment for the class is a process that I've used with my partners called bring it to a hundred and it's a very kind of ceremonial conversation that in medicine can be involved or not, it doesn't matter, but you really take some deep breaths and know that you're going to bring all of the truth 

DEBRA SILVERMAN: Oh, I love it.

AUBREY MARCUS: That were submerged, you know, all of the

DEBRA SILVERMAN: That’s fresh air.

AUBREY MARCUS: Yeah. And just clear it all out. And, you know, you have to really trust each other to be able to hold that and also maintain love and contact as you go through. But it's the only thing that can bring that kind of radical Zevug, that union together is when you're able to show all of the parts of yourself, even the little monsters and even the little hidden parts. You got to move all the veils of shame aside and just express it like it is. 

DEBRA SILVERMAN: This is part of your charisma as you speak. to things that many of us don't know how to speak to and then it gives us freedom to talk about it. That's the truth. 

AUBREY MARCUS: Yeah. All right. Moving on. 

DEBRA SILVERMAN: Then we go to earth and earth is the practice. So air is what university, going to school, going to high school, learning your language, being a little kid, learning words. It's that first air is nine months in the womb. Then we spend at least 18 to 24 years studying, thinking, studying, thinking, using the mind. And then we come to earth. This is the element of practicality of money, of ground, of insurance, of spreadsheets, of excel spreadsheets, dealing with all the details, the cleaning supplies at Costco. I think it's so funny. People love to go to Costco and buy boxes of windex, like, let's just go buy a whole bunch of paper towels and windex. That's a fun thing for an earth person, practicality, numbers, order, keeping things all as they should be, being on time, being responsible. So it's part in life, the reason why this planet is called earth, it's not because it's green. It's actually a blue planet. It should be called water down here. Like, we're dealing with so much emotional content, but it's Earth, which means you've got to keep your shit together. You gotta pay the rent. You got to pay your taxes. You got to make sure. So this is the practical realm. And for some people, easy. They do it in their sleep. I mean, they really go to Costco for a date night. For some people, that's a nightmare. Like, someone else cleaned this shit up. I don't want to brush my teeth. I don't want to wash, I don't want to clean all this. So it's two different variations, up and down, high road, low road. And it's so interesting, because you had no earth. But to our point, we started with this, God has said, don't give them any more, because you're so good at it. I was surprised, but not surprised, after I heard you tell the story of like, what do you do? So this is the realm where people either love their work, They can't wait to get up in the morning and they're making money and they're sharing it or, I don't want to go to work. I don't want to do the dishes. I don't, and they complain. Earth people at their worst complain a lot because they feel responsible. They're the designated driver and the high road is they love service and they get results and they make all this money and then they get to buy presents for people and they do all this sharing and they love to share their money. That's the high road. So you can see the range of the elements. 

AUBREY MARCUS: Right. Yeah. And it's funny because I have both of, like, so it's interesting my relationship with earth because it's simultaneously one of the most challenging and uncomfortable aspects of me. And also one of my great gifts

DEBRA SILVERMAN: Superpowers.

AUBREY MARCUS: Yeah. And that's where I think the complexity of this knowing that, okay, just because you don't have any earth that, and so in a kind of very superficial reading without knowing these deeper levels that you're talking about, it might be like, well, this doesn't fit. You know, I've obviously accomplished plenty of stuff, and I don't have any earth. So this is all bullshit, but then understanding like, Oh, no, no, these lessons I already had.

DEBRA SILVERMAN: Exactly.

AUBREY MARCUS: And so I'm actually calling on lessons that I've already learned from my soul's path. And now I don't need any more. And this is not the lesson that I need to learn, but I still get to bring those gifts forward in this incarnation. 

DEBRA SILVERMAN: It's some people that inherit money. This is an inheritance from past lives. We always judge people, people that are super rich. Like how did they do that? And then there's people that are super poor that never get money no matter how much they work. That's karma. It's karma on both ends and not a good or bad thing. It's become very exciting because of my career, having worked with celebrities throughout my lifetime, watching people with lots of money and watching people that don't have money because I like to work with everyone and go sneak into their chart and in seeing it's to your point, what level of consciousness am I bringing based on my past? How updated am I in the now to actually celebrate being on earth? Because it's not easy right now. This is the hardest time I think for the human condition that with 8 billion, there's never been 8 billion people here. 

AUBREY MARCUS: Right. And that radical interconnectivity and then all of the new technologies that are disrupting things

DEBRA SILVERMAN: And even right now I can hear vibration all the time. Right. So it's not an easy time to be here. And so how do we ground? How do we take off our shoes? I live in Hawaii, you have to hear. I spend a lot of time barefoot, and I spend a lot of time consciously choosing, because I'm not grounded by nature. What I want to say to people is, if you're missing one of these elements, you grow it. So you came in and inherited a lot of earth from your own past lives. I did not. So I had to learn, and it wasn't fun. Like, ew, who wants to do? I would sit in these P&L, I have this business, and they'd have P&L meetings, and I'd be like, what? And then I had to pretend like I knew what they were talking about, and then I would ask my best friend, who's very wealthy, like, can you help? And then he'd give me the right answer, and I'd go call him, make the call, and say what he said I'd written. So it took me years to get good at it, and I made a practice of it, because my missing element was Earth, and that's what you find out in the book. So yours is not missing, and there's very few people I'd say on this planet right now that are calmly grounded in their nervous system because the earth element is so jacked up with so much change and so many people. And this is one of my promises this lifetime as an elder, how do I calm down my nervous system so I can calm down you

AUBREY MARCUS: Mm hmm

DEBRA SILVERMAN: Which is what happened yesterday. So I can sit next to you and put my hand on your knee and let the energy ground because I'm grounded

AUBREY MARCUS: Right.

DEBRA SILVERMAN: Which did not come naturally. If you would have seen the little Jewish Detroit girl being a cheerleader, I was nuts. I had so much energy. I was a crazy girl. I was a gymnast and a dancer, and I went to university and studied dance. I was a bit like your wife, I mean, in the best way. And then as the years went by, I was like, I can't count on other people for money. I have to ground myself. I have to take my feet and put myself on this planet and cook and start cleaning like, Ooh, and now I'm really good at it.

AUBREY MARCUS: Mm hmm

DEBRA SILVERMAN: I mean, it wasn't natural. And the art of this game, the four elements, once again, four wheels in a car, the one that's missing, fill it up. You have a very healthy relationship with all four. It's not like you could not, I mean, really, if you think about it yesterday, you were very comfortable in Earth, even though it was unfamiliar by your chart, it's something you came with. Almost too much like you're saying, yes, you could just manifest and manifest and manifest and manifest 

AUBREY MARCUS: And a lot of that is relying on, you know, both the gifts of water, which is my ability to see and my ability to intuit and receive guidance from beyond me, you know, and so many of these different messages and gifts and blessings like I could. People love to say, you know, Oh, you know, so, you know, it must have been nice growing up in a family that was wealthy. Well, my dad lost his mind and went crazy before he ever even saw me be successful. Right? Like it was beautiful. I had a beautiful relationship with my father and all my parents were gifted, but people try to explain like, Oh, the great gifts, you know, you must've got money from him. I never got any money from my parents. I mean, they paid for my college, which is a blessing, of course, but I made Onnit myself. I borrowed money from, you know, got money from all the, scraped together a little bit, you know, 110,000 and built that whole thing

DEBRA SILVERMAN: You know, it’s such a crazy story

AUBREY MARCUS: But the blessings, really what they're not looking at, if they want to say like, wow, you were really blessed. Well, I'm really blessed by my ability to receive

DEBRA SILVERMAN: To listen

AUBREY MARCUS: To listen, like, and that is a huge, huge blessing. I’ve always felt gifted.

DEBRA SILVERMAN: And also your air, you're so good with people because you have all that air in your chart, more air than any other element, communicating and networking and talking and paying attention to what they say and asking questions. You're very good at, I mean, I see it in you, this is why this podcast is so interesting because you ask such good. You're not normal, let's start there. Okay. So anybody was wondering, and part of that is your air. Like you ask out of the box questions and your people skills, added to that download coming is you can play the game at a very high level.

AUBREY MARCUS: Yeah. And that's so with that blessing, I've always felt this immense responsibility. And this responsibility is also one of the blessings and the challenges, right? Because I can feel so like, I feel so blessed, like so impossibly blessed and so impossibly grateful for the life I've been given. But then I say, okay, in order to pay that back, I got to give everything. 

DEBRA SILVERMAN: Yeah, I know. 

AUBREY MARCUS: I got to give everything. And give everything even at the cost of, the cost of my own health and heart and well being. And that's a challenge. And that's where the putting on the Malchut, the kingship of the air, the decision maker to say, no, you got to follow your own advice. You gotta become Fit for service. You can't just be all service. You gotta nourish yourself. 

DEBRA SILVERMAN: Yay, you were listening, you were listening.

AUBREY MARCUS: Yeah for sure.

DEBRA SILVERMAN: Good answer, yeah. So that's the air, and then back to the earth, and then let's finish. That was such an interesting conversation. That was really what you just spoke to is, how do we let ourselves stay true to ourselves, and how do we call ourselves out? When we know there's something incongruent, 

AUBREY MARCUS: Mm hmm

DEBRA SILVERMAN: That’s a big one for a modern day civilization. How do I stay honest? That's all air. How do I, and I use therapists and best friends in my relationship to say, tell me when I'm full of shit because I can't tell. And that keeps me honest. That's what a good therapist is, that's what happened yesterday. Like, uh, uh. Okay. So that brings us to fire. Fire is the element where we get super blunt. And we say shit, and we're honest, and we hit a drum, in your case we were using a rattle, and we call in our ancestors and our council. And it's shamanic, it's very much medicine. Fire is when we're like, okay, I need help. This is blunt and honest, and honestly I'm not able to tell the truth for some reason, or I feel blocked. Fire just wakes everybody up and gets everything going, ding, ding, ding, music, loud, getting drunk, being blunt. being funny, showing off, getting on stage, singing, being able to grab the mic. That's fire. It's the courage to stand up, stand out and be uninhibited, which you and I both have a lot of. And then the low side of that is they're obnoxious. Their ego gets carried away. They're super loud. They need all the attention. They're not easy to get close to because they're arrogant and they stand apart and you feel like you're not comfortable being with them because they're better than that's the low level of fire, arrogance, and a bit of like, I'm the best because they are. And then the high levels are spiritually shamanic. So they're doing all that remembering that it's not them that's doing it. When a high level being who's really visible and has gotten all kinds of acknowledgement can take off that mask of whatever the role is, whoever we are, I'm an astrologer. This little Jewish girl from Detroit turns into an astrologer, gets famous, so they say. And meanwhile, underneath my fire and being totally honest is, I don't know how that happened. And it makes me laugh. It's kind of fun. I mean, somehow by me being authentic and being energetic and being blunt and taking risks and going to graduate school and saying to them, I want to study psychology and astrology. They were like, what did you just say? Those two words didn't go together in the eighties when I was in graduate school, but I was fiery enough to go, Oh yes, they do. And watch this. And then I studied, you'll love this chronic mental patients chart. I went to the hospitals in LA with chronic mental patients and I did all their charts to see their correlation to mental illness. And there was. 

AUBREY MARCUS: Wow, what'd you find? 

DEBRA SILVERMAN: Uranus. I'm not even gonna go there because there's too many people I could make reference to but it's the people that can't follow at all, I'm not gonna mention Aaron Rodgers and they can't fit in. They can't do a normal path. They can't not say the thing They can't spill the beans. They're Uranian. They're individualistic. They're advanced. They're ahead of us, but they're strange. So that was part of what I saw with mental illness back in the olden days 

AUBREY MARCUS: Uh huh. And that's so, Uranus is also Neptune, right? So

DEBRA SILVERMAN: No, they're cousins, they live next door. 

AUBREY MARCUS: Okay. 

DEBRA SILVERMAN: So there's these outer planets, you have a strong Neptune, which is the other worlds and going between the worlds.

AUBREY MARCUS: So Uranus, 

DEBRA SILVERMAN: Uranus

AUBREY MARCUS: What's the other name for Uranus? 

DEBRA SILVERMAN: These are the outer planets, there's no other name. 

AUBREY MARCUS: Oh, wow. 

DEBRA SILVERMAN: There’s Neptune, Uranus, and Pluto. It starts with Jupiter. It starts with Jupiter, Saturn, Neptune, Uranus, and Pluto. You think I would know this by now. So no, they're independent flavors. They're independent archetypes. And the Uranian archetype is very fiery by nature. It's loud and it's found, get ready, during the French Revolution when they were changing all the rules of the government. Uranus is a personality type who says, I am not going to do what was done before. Now, you have shades of this. But not like Aaron. Is it okay talking about him? You have a very strong Neptune, which is one of the places you and he connect. Neptune is the planet that goes between the worlds, that has the gift of channeling, that knows how to be the poet that can bring in higher frequencies. So there's different places. And the last one is Pluto. I'm just gonna give you an astrology class. Pluto is the furthest planet out. We cannot see it. It was demoted by a group of astronomers that got together a hundred of them in a room and decided they were gonna demote Pluto. Why? This was about twenty years ago, they didn't because Pluto rules the underbelly, the unconscious. It was found in 1930. 

AUBREY MARCUS: They wanted to keep it in the shadows.  

DEBRA SILVERMAN: They wanted to keep it in the shadows and cut it off. When Hitler and Freud and Einstein were all working with this invisible energy, we had no name for it at the time, named the unconscious or nuclear energy, but it's plutonium energy. So those are the outer, I don't know how we got to this. Those are the three outer planets that have a great influence on our planet and each person, like I'm strongly, sounds so funny, I'm strongly Uranian. I don't follow. I couldn't be a therapist and I couldn't be an astrologer. I've never been associated to one astrology group or one psychology group. Because my Uranus is so strong that I was like, I'm not going to fit in when I start telling them what I'm doing. I'm not doing proper astrology because I brought psychology to it. And I'm not doing proper, you know, psychology because I have so much astrology in it. So I got left out, which was just fine with me.

AUBREY MARCUS: Yeah

DEBRA SILVERMAN: And that's the personality type that's fiery, it's bold, that stands apart. And you have this as well, where if you don't like it, it's okay. And that can come off as arrogant and too self confident and the secret of fire people is they're insecure because they're like, I'm going to get in trouble soon. I just know it. They wait to get in trouble. Someone's going to scream at me and get mad. That's the low level. And when the wisdom of the fire gets cultivated, which is what you're growing, they're blunt and they're honest. So when we sat together and you said, Oh no, I don't have a problem. I went, excuse me, 

AUBREY MARCUS: Mm hmm

DEBRA SILVERMAN: That was fire. Like, Aubrey, and you went, Oh, thanks. Yeah, maybe there is something about overusing something and not having the choice factor. 

AUBREY MARCUS: Right. 

DEBRA SILVERMAN: But who could say that to Aubrey Marcus, a fiery, well trained astrologer, because I've gotten to the point where I'm almost 70. So now I'm just free with my fire. 

AUBREY MARCUS: Yeah. And it's such a gift too, and 

DEBRA SILVERMAN: Makes it so fun.

AUBREY MARCUS: You know, it's frustrating. One of the things that's, I think, probably the most frustrating for me is because of maybe in myself, if I get called out and it's true, I'm like, I'm bound by this field of value to be like, Oh, I don't know. I'm going to admit it and I'm not going to double down and double down on my own justification, even though I could, 

DEBRA SILVERMAN: That’s healthy fire.

AUBREY MARCUS: You know, even though I could, I'm not going to. And so when I have somebody who can do that, it's just such a blessing when I can, when someone can

DEBRA SILVERMAN: Call you out.

AUBREY MARCUS: Say something, call me out or change my opinion radically, you know, where I like, I have a strong belief in something 

DEBRA SILVERMAN: Like you don't believe in astrology. And now you do.

AUBREY MARCUS: Exactly. I'm like, and I've been public about my skepticism about astrology and I can be like, Oh yeah, I was wrong. Great.

DEBRA SILVERMAN: I love that story

AUBREY MARCUS: And I think that's the, you know, it's something we don't see modeled in our leadership enough either

DEBRA SILVERMAN: You’re so right.

AUBREY MARCUS: I mean, politicians are always just doubling down on their position and never taking responsibility because people try to freeze you in your wrongness and then say you're wrong. And so you'll never be right. Well, we're all going to be wrong. It's about how you can acknowledge when you're wrong and then adapt to that. 

DEBRA SILVERMAN: There's so little example in our eldership of how to use fire, how to get angry, how to be direct, how to say I'm sorry, how to say I was wrong. Like to be able to start using those skills in a heightened way is the job of everyone listening to this. We are preparing for another generation, the children that you guys are bringing in, because I'm old, Earth. The next generation behind us, they're waiting and looking at their parents going, are you guys going to get this right? Because so far we're not doing great. Based on the collective, that's not to say that the medicine people are taking and the ability to alter the point of view of how you tell the truth and say, yeah, you're right, I'm wrong and I'm sorry and I need your help and please help me. Those are things that fire people, in old stories couldn't say. So there's not a lot of examples. But one of my promises this lifetime was, I want to get fire right. My father was a great teacher. My mother had a terrible temper. She would throw things. And so it would get really loud, you can imagine. And then he would just walk up to her and say, I'm going for a walk. I'll be right back. And he'd leave the house. And then she would calm down. And I thought, well, that's the wisest response. When there's a fight, when the war is about to occur, drop your arms, back it up. Take a breath, but that takes a lot of courage or wisdom, to know how to activate your fire to calm down when someone's right in your face.

AUBREY MARCUS: Yeah, absolutely. 

DEBRA SILVERMAN: He says, why are there going to be two of us in this house looking like you? That's a great teacher. 

AUBREY MARCUS: Great story. And what about the element ether? Do you deal with this at all? Does this come in and is this like the fifth element? 

DEBRA SILVERMAN: I love that question. So in my book that's coming out in April, 2025, the last chapter is called the 13th sign, which I know you asked about. There is a 13th sign that was found, but that's not the one I'm talking about. Ether is the world between the worlds. Ether is when time, you're so good at this with your Venus at zero degrees. I told you about this yesterday. You have an access point of genius in the name of love, Venus, in Pisces, the highest love, Christ love, in the house of Pisces. Like you are really here this lifetime embodying a very refined, higher level of love. That's your zero degrees. That's so funny. I just went off on that. The question again, I had a brain fart. Beep beep.

AUBREY MARCUS: Ether.

DEBRA SILVERMAN: A 13th sign. 

AUBREY MARCUS: And the 13th sign.

DEBRA SILVERMAN: No wonder I did. Of course I did. Because the 13th sign is when you step out of time. That was so fun I did it lifetime. It's when time stands still. The 13th sign is what I call the observer. This is all my work. This is what the session was yesterday. Come up and out with me. Look back over at Aubrey. See his different characters and then check in with him. Who does he want to listen to? Like there's freedom that happens once the observer's on. So the ether, the 13th sign is where you stop. You take a breath. And you ask yourself, like, how awake am I right now? Where am I? How is this going? How is this podcast? When you stop time and you let yourself become aware of the 13th sign or the ether or the zero degree where you're standing out, that's where awareness is really excited, Oh good, someone's home. 

AUBREY MARCUS: Yeah 

DEBRA SILVERMAN: Now we have a breath. 

AUBREY MARCUS: This is you know, the Greek word, for like chronological time is Kronos. And then the stepping outside of time is called Kairos and Kairos is another form of time. It's timelessness. It's the timeless time. It's the time in the other dimensions that are not bound here.

DEBRA SILVERMAN: And here they call it, Ein Sof. It's that before time exists, where there's another zone and some for some reason I, like you, have a fascination with the other worlds and I remember and it's funny to say this because I'm trying so hard to ground. But I have this very fond memory of the place we go when we're in that calm place standing still in the I'm so before the form in that open space and it's not easy to get to and that's why drugs are so popular like take me home remind me about that place. But how do you do that while you're on earth? Earth in the middle of doing the dishes with the microphone with the kid with the phone with the, how do you stay in that present state? That's the practice of what the real truth of the 13th sign is. Can I return to that place? Can I go to the ether? Can I stop in the middle of making love when the energy is building? This is Tantra, but there's so few people that can stay awake, especially in the moment of death. This is one of the most important. My dear friend right now is leaving the world, this genius man I've known for so many years. He's written and he's read all there is about near death experiences. The guy's a complete genius. You would think on his way out, he would calmly walk out, but no. He's in complete and total resistance. It's shocking because when the human emotional body gets triggered and his daughters are in the room and he doesn't want to leave

AUBREY MARCUS: Yeah.

DEBRA SILVERMAN: Instead of walking gracefully into the Ein Sof, into the 13th sign into the, he's in pure resistance. And that is the dilemma of the human condition right now. We're in a transition. You know this, all the people in your circle I've met today are all leaders in their own way of not following. You draw them. 

AUBREY MARCUS: Yeah. 

DEBRA SILVERMAN: They follow you around because they're comfortable. Now they're weird and it feels normal

AUBREY MARCUS: Right. Yeah I mean so much of there's so many wisdom traditions you say that one of the goals of our life is to practice how to die, so that we can make that transition, 

DEBRA SILVERMAN: Today is a good day to die.

AUBREY MARCUS: With full awareness. Yeah. 

DEBRA SILVERMAN: Stay awake. Stay awake. 

AUBREY MARCUS: Na-kay New-la wah-oon

DEBRA SILVERMAN: And that's the danger of drugs and that's the danger of indulgence and that's the danger of too much money. It's the danger of falling asleep because you're so comfortable and you're having so much fun. You can't wait to make love. When you can stay still and be in the presence of this place raw, without being filtered, and it's really a minimalism practice. I think less is more. If people knew how to use the medicine, and use the altered states, and use the ability to dream off and go on social media in moderation. That's what we looked at yesterday. Pacing, and that's why I'm not aging normally. Because I've been pacing the whole time, like slow down. I don't know why everyone's in a rush. It's confusing to me. Everybody's in a rush. If you watch how we go through our day, we're looking at our watch, and we got the time thing, we feel like I'm on my way to the airport, and I'm getting all, like, calm down, Debra, I say to myself.

AUBREY MARCUS: Yeah. 

DEBRA SILVERMAN: Take a breath. 

AUBREY MARCUS: Yeah, that's a hard one for me. That's a really hard one for me. It always feels like everything is so urgent and needs to be done immediately. 

DEBRA SILVERMAN: So permission to know that time goes on forever in every direction. That's the truth. 

AUBREY MARCUS: Yeah. 

DEBRA SILVERMAN: And that once your awareness is on and you're honoring the 13th sign, which is where we stand off the screen out of the character for a minute, take a breath, everything slows down. But it's really fun when you're snuggled up with your dog or your baby or your best friend or your lover. It's a lot easier to snuggle up and relax than when you're by yourself. And that's one of the windows in this planet that's really suffering is loneliness and being alone here. In the middle of a room at a coffee shop in the middle of an airport. That's the weirdest part. Like that's what happened yesterday. We really bonded. We had an intimate exchange and that's what we're all longing for. 

AUBREY MARCUS: Yeah. 

DEBRA SILVERMAN: Who can see me and love me with all my funny parts. 

AUBREY MARCUS: Right. And when you feel that, it's bliss. It's bliss. You feel like you're at home in the universe again.

DEBRA SILVERMAN: And that's what astrology is for. And at the end of a good astrology reading, a really good astrology reading, you should finish going, I felt so understood. Like that was, now I get it. That's what astrology is for. Essentially is to help you fall in love with you so you can get on with the movie. 

AUBREY MARCUS: Mm hmm

DEBRA SILVERMAN: Cause you can't get rid of you. Ha ha. It doesn't go away. 

AUBREY MARCUS: Yeah. 

DEBRA SILVERMAN: If you notice. 

AUBREY MARCUS: Yeah. I mean, this is our human, you know, and it's our responsibility to take care of it. 

DEBRA SILVERMAN: And your soul follows you around, across all time. 

AUBREY MARCUS: Yeah. 

DEBRA SILVERMAN: So that story you told about that woman purging and that woman coming to you and seeing the pathways.

AUBREY MARCUS: Yeah. 

DEBRA SILVERMAN: Everyone that's watching this is going on a path right now and their soul's being watched and they're being tracked and it's being recorded. And when you get to the Kastrick records, they'll say, Oh yeah, remember when you and Deb did that podcast. Remember that night when you did that unbelievable 4E and things? That was written. 

AUBREY MARCUS: Yeah. I had a beautiful encounter with the divine father's energy and what I saw from that father was just this rapt attention and just saying, tell me more. Tell me more of your story. Like tell me more, sweetheart. And you know you think of fathers and so many fathers are so busy in their work And how was your day at school and mothers can be the same. But how's your day at school not really paying attention, not really caring, not really listening, but that rapt attention of like, tell me what's going on. What are you feeling? Tell me about your story. Right. And just knowing that God, the universe, the divine father, whatever you want to call it, really cares, 

DEBRA SILVERMAN: In love with you  

AUBREY MARCUS: Is in love with you and pays you full attention. 

DEBRA SILVERMAN: And if you don't believe what Aubrey just said, because you're different and nobody loves you, you got to go do some therapy because God, the truth is we're all lovable, but there's a lot of people's internal dialogue that will argue with you.

AUBREY MARCUS: Yeah. 

DEBRA SILVERMAN: The ego does not believe it's lovable. 

AUBREY MARCUS: Right, and we've been conditioned to really feel like we're bad, you know, in some way. The original sin.

DEBRA SILVERMAN: I know 

AUBREY MARCUS: That we're born bad. That we’re all going to repent.

DEBRA SILVERMAN: This is the entrance of my new book, the design faults. Like that's one of the biggest design faults. Why wouldn't the internal dialogue go, you look so good. You're doing so good. I'm so proud of you. Like, what if the internal dialogue was built on the operating system with a positive entrance to your day by your own soul talking to you? It's just like, I make this shit up. But anyways, wouldn't it be amazing if the operating system is different and it's coming soon. The kids that are being born now, there are babies coming in who are awake and they're kind and they're teaching us and they're all over this planet. 

AUBREY MARCUS: Yeah. That’s one of the chapters of my new book that I'm working on that'll hopefully be out December 13th, but that is 

DEBRA SILVERMAN: About the children

AUBREY MARCUS: No, about how to retrain that voice. So right now we all know the voice, but we always call it the judge or the inner critic because that's all it does, but the function of it is a coach. It's here to coach us. And if we actually change its fundamental operating system, like an actual coach, there's coaches that we've had that all they do is criticize and it's all punishments, all running suicides or fucking sprints. And it's all being, it's all humiliation. It's all fear. And I had one of those coaches, he's an asshole. And then my coach though was also the biggest asshole of them all, right? Like the hardest on me. So, so hard. And so when you have such a harsh critic that punishes you, then just like if you have an overly harsh parent that punishes you too much, you start to be dishonest.

DEBRA SILVERMAN: Absorb it. Yeah. 

AUBREY MARCUS: You want you to absorb it and then that becomes your own inner voice. But then you start to be dishonest to your parents because you don't want to get in trouble. 

DEBRA SILVERMAN: Right. 

AUBREY MARCUS: You don't want to, so you come up with a bunch of excuses. So many people are coming up with excuses and they're not actually being honest with themselves because they have such a harsh critic and a judge that they actually are always justifying their actions and they're not actually saying like, oh yeah, that was fucked up because they're going to get punished so severely that they can't admit that they fucked up. And so, but if you actually change that voice to be like, all right, it's okay. You can do better and you'll learn and you'll get back up and I love you. And keep going. You're always going to fall and get back up.

DEBRA SILVERMAN: So beautiful. 

AUBREY MARCUS: You know, so like take the voice of the mother 

DEBRA SILVERMAN: Of compassion 

AUBREY MARCUS: And yeah, and take the voice of the father and allow that to be the coach.

AUBREY MARCUS: Allow that to be the voice that's constantly feeding you that different, 

DEBRA SILVERMAN: That’s a practice

AUBREY MARCUS: Different information. It's a really, really important practice. 

DEBRA SILVERMAN: Yeah. And that is what astrology is in essence is giving you back permission to see yourself through the eyes of love. Like you're a double Pisces. Of course you're a poet. Like, why would you be self conscious that you cry? Tell the kid, the little kid, you're allowed to cry. And the kid goes, as he grows up, wow, totally comfortable in his emotional body. So his internal dialogue is different. But you can be a new parent. You can parent yourself. That's what astrology is. I feel like I'm a big, giant mom.

AUBREY MARCUS: Yeah. 

DEBRA SILVERMAN: That's what I feel like. Like I really feel like that if I could just tell everyone just what you said, that you're not a mistake. No one pushed you on the bus. You wanted to come here. This was a volunteer position. You were so excited to be here that there's 8 billion people standing in line going, pick me, pick me. And then they picked your little kid coming out of you or you yourself came out with that excitement. And then you get down here, you're like, wait, what? But give me some medicine. I can't remember. And so the memory is a big part of what astrology is for activating the memory of the remembrance. Like, Oh, I'm a Gemini. I came here to talk this life, why am I self conscious? 

AUBREY MARCUS: Yeah

DEBRA SILVERMAN: I write that in my new book. I was self conscious that I talked. 

AUBREY MARCUS: Sure. 

DEBRA SILVERMAN: So I stopped talking. Then I had to reinvent myself and go, hold on. We're just like you yesterday. Where's my authentic voice I left behind? And then I gave myself back to look at me here we are talking and talking 

AUBREY MARCUS: To just circle back a little bit on this universe. And my teacher, Marc Gafni says something beautiful. And the day of your birth is the day that God decided that it couldn't live without you. 

DEBRA SILVERMAN: Oh, it’s so 

AUBREY MARCUS: It's the day that God decided. I just can't live without you, sweetheart. I can't live without you, you know, and like, we really believe that from the start and we started telling our kids it's like, and on every birthday is like, remember son, remember daughter, this was the day that God or goddess decided that they couldn't live without you. And that your story, your story is part of the infinite tapestry of all of life and your unique story, you don't have to, you're not supposed to follow anyone else's story

DEBRA SILVERMAN: The weirder, the better. Chunky, chunky be funny.

AUBREY MARCUS: Your unique story, you're here to be unique, your DNA is unique, your retinas, your fingerprints, your soul, everything. It's all unique. 

DEBRA SILVERMAN: God was having a party on that day when they made you, they were like, we got a good one here. Look at this chart. This is the coolest chart. This guy's going to come down there and be a poet and he's going to be able to get shit done. And he's got this amazing access to the other worlds and relationships. Wow. That's what he said. She, they were sitting there together. 

AUBREY MARCUS: Yeah. 

DEBRA SILVERMAN: It's a great chart. 

AUBREY MARCUS: Thank you. I feel very blessed. 

DEBRA SILVERMAN: That's what I really see in so many charts, the divine nature that you're describing, that isn't understood because we don't have a language. 

AUBREY MARCUS: Right. 

DEBRA SILVERMAN: How do you distinguish? Some people aren't able to talk, and they're nonverbal, and they're really deeply quiet and at peace, but they feel self conscious because they don't think they have anything to say. That's not true. That's right there on the chart. Some people are athletic, prowess, they're unbelievably physical, and some people are sitting down writing books for hours in a room and not moving. That's what they're supposed to be doing. So the judgments in the non comparison and being able to celebrate God, see through God's eyes. That's my job. 

AUBREY MARCUS: Yeah

DEBRA SILVERMAN: Can you believe that they pay me to look at people's psyches and souls and describe to them what God was thinking? 

AUBREY MARCUS: Right. 

DEBRA SILVERMAN: That's my job. 

AUBREY MARCUS: Yeah. How cool.

DEBRA SILVERMAN: And I teach other people. I have a whole slew of astrologers I've trained that are on my website that I do this game called matchmaking where you send me your chart and I go, Oh, you would do good with this person.  And then they go off to that person. 

AUBREY MARCUS: That's cool. 

DEBRA SILVERMAN: I know. I'm a matchmaker. 

AUBREY MARCUS: That's cool

DEBRA SILVERMAN: I made the job up. 

AUBREY MARCUS: Yeah. So one aspect of astrology that I haven't gotten too much into, but is the things that are happening as, like, in the collective. So your birth chart interacts with whatever kind of collective phenomenon is going on. So even if you're a Pisces, if you're entering into Leo season or something. So what is the effect of all of the different cycles as each individual?

DEBRA SILVERMAN: Small question. 

AUBREY MARCUS: Yeah. 

DEBRA SILVERMAN: So let's just start with you. When I sat down, the first thing I said was Saturn and Pisces. It's going to be there for another year. Once every 30 years, Saturn goes into Pisces. So personally, I can say, you're in a very challenging time. Saturn's asking you to get disciplined. It's a very unusual moment. So there's you. Now you're asking about the collective. So eclipses just occurred. And during eclipses, they always come in full or new moons and they come in sandwiches. There's two of them. And during those eclipses between the two, it's an intense moment. In 1909, Einstein found relativity on an eclipse. It was marked down. It's typically a moment in time where something happens that's really unusual and you pay attention. So people don't really know how to use eclipses. It's an opportunity to put a flag in the sand and go, this is the era that I'm going to da da. Most people just say, oh, there's an eclipse and we're all staring at the sky. It's so funny to me. Like, let's just all stare at the sky and we're so impressed because it's so cool. But what does it mean, said the Jedi. So during the eclipses, these last two are all about relationships, about the relationship with self and the other. It's this conversation you have, Libra, Aries. How much am I myself and holding my own individuality? And how much do I want to accommodate and please the other and stay in the romance without losing myself? So this has been a song the last, let's say the last three or four months. And there's a decision in there. If someone wants to use the eclipse, I tend to leave it to other astrologers on YouTube and on Instagram and on TikTok to talk about these trends, because I get bored. At a certain point they're talking, I'm like, honestly, I understand this shit, but I'm not that interested. Don't tell anyone. Did I get in trouble? So I tend to do it very short. If you go and see my Instagram or my TikTok, they're just that day. You know, my whole thing is, if we're being honest, after this podcast is over, how much are they gonna remember? Oh, wow. Debra had a baby because she was on mushrooms. Oh, wow. Did you hear that story? They had this encounter together and he finally talked about his drugs or some whatever that's called, the medicine, don't call it drugs. These are the things they're going to remember after this is over. So too much information and my mind goes like I kind of get confused. So I do practical astrology. Yes, I'm interested that there were eclipses and I certainly paid attention and something really happened for me. And I'm more interested in you studying your chart and the rhythms of the week and staying in the flow and getting these elements into your system balanced. And then once that happens, if you want to come study with me, I have a school, 

AUBREY MARCUS: Yeah

DEBRA SILVERMAN: I'm not abstraction and going off into high intellectuals, not my strong suit. I have the gift, but mostly I'm an embodiment person that wants to make sure we're not full of shit. I spent a lot of time in life, sniffing people and saying, are they full of shit? And they look me in the eyes and I can tell real quick. And so do you. 

AUBREY MARCUS: Yeah, absolutely. This idea of repairing. So during the eclipse, I was with a brother, Matias DeStefano, who's this wild, mystic, channeling, magnificent being and he really gave me a very clear assignment and the very clear, he like put his staff, he had a staff and puts a staff down and he smashes it down right next to him and everybody just kind of looking around. I knew I could feel that he was calling me. I was sitting in the back, just kind of relaxed right at the eclipse. And then I go sit down there and he goes, finally. And I was like, all right, man, I get it. You know, like, sorry, I didn't jump to it, but you weren't exactly clear. You just put your staff on the ground. And then he's like, you have to repair the story of Cain and Abel, the two brothers who couldn't get along. And you have to repair the union between the lovers. And he's like, he gave me that specific, which is all about relationships. 

DEBRA SILVERMAN: Welcome to Saturn and Libra

AUBREY MARCUS: Yeah, exactly. And I was like, all right, well, okay, that's a big ass to repair Cain and Abel and repair the lovers. But yeah, it was like, 

DEBRA SILVERMAN: That makes total sense. 

AUBREY MARCUS: It does. It makes a lot of sense. 

DEBRA SILVERMAN: And you heard it and I'm sure you're applying it and then I showed up. 

AUBREY MARCUS: Yeah, exactly. 

DEBRA SILVERMAN: It’s synchronicity. It's what you specialize in. And people watching this, there's lots of synchronicity everywhere in the world. Do we notice it? Good question. And do we listen? Better question. But do we apply? Like, will my 4E yesterday actually affect your life? I want to hear. I've got your text number now. 

AUBREY MARCUS: Yeah, totally. Well, and so I texted Vy, you know, after it was over and she's like, how was your session? And I go, well, it will radically change my life if I allow it to 

DEBRA SILVERMAN: Bingo.

AUBREY MARCUS: It will radically change my life if I allow it to. And I could just go, Oh, that was a cool session. Or I could take the lessons and I could actually fucking do it. And then say, no, that session changed my life. And I made the choices to make sure that it changed my life because it's just a session unless I actually follow through.

DEBRA SILVERMAN: Yes and be patient. You're in exact Saturn on Mars today. It's not an easy moment. This is why your body's been giving you a little challenge. It's really important to take your time. That's part of our conversation yesterday is pace. You get the insight, then you wait, then you wait, then you can't stop because it's so clear. If everyone would just slow down, I don't understand because I was a speed freak, let's be honest, and I still have tendencies on my electric bike, but I've learned making love slower, eating slower, smelling the flowers, walking slower. Totally different experience. 

AUBREY MARCUS: Yeah. 

DEBRA SILVERMAN: I don't know why the human body is built to be anxious and built for high, strong energy. I keep asking myself

AUBREY MARCUS: Do you think it's because just collectively there's so much stimulus that we've gotten into this kind of frenetic pace? 

DEBRA SILVERMAN: Can you hear? I mean, right now, five G we've got cameras on, there's high voltage energy. We have to admit that when we grew up, when I grew up, there wasn't all this stuff

AUBREY MARCUS: Right

DEBRA SILVERMAN: There was quiet. 

AUBREY MARCUS: Right.

DEBRA SILVERMAN: So we're at a different frequency and therefore we have to become conscious of, how do we meditate, how do we medicinalize the collective angst. If I am a leader as an elder, and I invite everyone that's watching this to think, maybe you're an elder and didn't know it. Maybe you're drawn to Aubrey because you love this wisdom so much it resonates in the deepest parts of your recesses. If that's true, you may be an elder and if you're an elder, that means you got a job. And what is the job of the elder? To prepare the ones in front and behind with security and safety to say, I got you. We're safe. Don't worry. That was one of my trips on, we won't go into that one, but I did get a very loud message from many years ago that I'm safe. And once I put that in my body and started breathing it, life got so different. 

AUBREY MARCUS: Yeah. 

DEBRA SILVERMAN: Can you imagine everyone, think about that. Are you safe? I know you probably feel safe. 

AUBREY MARCUS: Well, I do because actually I'm comfortable with death. 

DEBRA SILVERMAN: It's in your voice. 

AUBREY MARCUS: Yeah, I'm actually comfortable with death.

DEBRA SILVERMAN: That's the biggest. 

AUBREY MARCUS: And when you're comfortable with death, then you're comfortable. 

DEBRA SILVERMAN: What you got to lose.

AUBREY MARCUS: Exactly. Comfortable. And I love life. I don't crave it. And this is again, today is a good day to die. ‘Na-kay New-la wah-oon’ is, you know, I'm ready for whatever's next. It's a comfort because I know the continuity of conscious, I know that, I know that I'll take many forms over the eons and eons of iterations of the soul's purpose and the cosmic school that I'm in. And so that's what ultimately gives me comfort. And that's also what I think was a big wake up call during COVID because, and during the pandemic, everybody was like now having to confront, Oh shit, like death is now pressing in closer and we're not able to look away and pretend that this isn't something that can reach all of us. And it really, 

DEBRA SILVERMAN: It will reach all of us.

AUBREY MARCUS: Yeah, exactly. And it really breaks my heart seeing how, instead of metabolizing and digesting this and allowing this shock of death to metabolize and to move beyond it. Some people are still and will probably forever wear a mask everywhere they go for the rest of their life. And because the fear just reached them and they haven't had the elders to help guide them through and say, it’s okay.

DEBRA SILVERMAN: Everyone is wearing a mask, just so you know, everyone's wearing a mask. And until we get to the 13th sign and get out from behind that cute little face of yours, everyone's wearing a mask. 

AUBREY MARCUS: Yeah. 

DEBRA SILVERMAN: It takes a lot of courage to admit and be vulnerable. This existence for me, I don't know about you, but I find it very painful. I'm not good at being human. This is not my specialty. 

AUBREY MARCUS: Yeah. I understand that.

DEBRA SILVERMAN: I fake it. And I do a really good job because I've got a mission and I know who I work for and I want to go home and say, job well done and I can nod my head. 

AUBREY MARCUS: Amen. Amen. 

DEBRA SILVERMAN: But in the meantime, being here, I wear a mask from time to time in order to keep this place feeling comfortable because I find the human condition mean. It hurts me. And I hate the feeling of cold winds where your heart's not feeling safe and you don't know who your people are. We don't know that because you're so community bound as I am, but there's a lot of people listening to this who spend way too much time alone. 

AUBREY MARCUS: Right. 

DEBRA SILVERMAN: And they don't feel connected, 

AUBREY MARCUS: Right

DEBRA SILVERMAN: Mostly to themselves and their own chart.

AUBREY MARCUS: Right. Yeah, I mean, when that moment, like, so much wisdom is about bringing death close. You know, memento mori, probably. Arguably the most famous stoic saying, you know, remember your death

DEBRA SILVERMAN: I love it so much.

AUBREY MARCUS: Remember your death, like, remember that you're going to die and the Bushido, you have a samurai over your right shoulder right there and the Bushido code, like the first lesson is the same thing is like, remember you're going to die and when you bring in Carlos Castaneda, from Don Juan, the Toltec lineage is 

DEBRA SILVERMAN: My favorite

AUBREY MARCUS: Death is the wisest advisor that a warrior has.

DEBRA SILVERMAN: Yes. 

AUBREY MARCUS: When you think that all is lost, you ask your death and your death will say, no, I have not touched you yet. You're still alive. And so like bringing death close actually is the liberation to allow you to feel safe in any circumstance. 

DEBRA SILVERMAN: It's easy for you to say because you're an old soul who's made the transition. There's a lot of people in just the smallest ways, letting go, feeling safe, being able to not be in a relationship that doesn't work because they're scared of death, of the relationship. You can't imagine how prevalent 

AUBREY MARCUS: Yeah, the clinging.

DEBRA SILVERMAN: This is a symbol of your evolution, which is why we're sitting here because you've done death. You're friends with it. 

AUBREY MARCUS: Mm hmm

DEBRA SILVERMAN: I am the same, but I did a research project. I studied with two rabbis about death and dying, and I sat in the room and I said to everyone, we were studying for years together. And I said, raise your hand if you're afraid of your death. And half the room raised their hand tentatively. And then I said, raise your hand if you can't wait. And the other half raises your hand. And I said, this is what life is like. Half the people can't stand the thought of their death. My neighbor, And the other half are secretly trying to figure out how to get out of here. 

AUBREY MARCUS: Right. 

DEBRA SILVERMAN: And do it with a clean slate, so that you finish here with everything checked out before you go.

AUBREY MARCUS: Right. 

DEBRA SILVERMAN: That's a very interesting conversation. 

AUBREY MARCUS: Yeah, and a part of really

DEBRA SILVERMAN: Scorpio. 

AUBREY MARCUS: A part of, yeah, I want to hear more about that. A part of it is actually living so fully, that when you cross the threshold, you can look back and say, Oh yeah. I really lived, you know, like I tasted the food. I kissed the lover, I stood for what I believed in. I laughed. I danced. I lived, 

DEBRA SILVERMAN: Felt cold water. I saw the stars at night. I drank salt water. I drank the wine. 

AUBREY MARCUS: Exactly 

DEBRA SILVERMAN: I head the hop read

AUBREY MARCUS: Like a real Sufi. Yeah. 

DEBRA SILVERMAN: This place makes me so excited. 

AUBREY MARCUS: Tell me about Scorpios. So Scorpios, everybody sees Scorpio and they're like, Ooh, you like to fuck. 

DEBRA SILVERMAN: And that's so unfair, I know that makes me so mad. That's what my books, I wanted to just distill and then dismiss all of this. It's not fair. Scorpio is everything you just said, the short version is. It's the highest sign to get us out of the liberation, to get us into liberation of the ego. So Scorpio, while it's considered sex is a cheap way of putting it, sex is a small death, orgasm is the release of the ego, Scorpio has a huge appetite to figure out how to get out of here. They're really desperate. If they have a relationship with very much being present, everything you said, they eat this life alive and they're not afraid of their death at the highest. At the lowest level, they're very manipulative and they're scaredy cats and they sting. And it's a longer conversation. I have a short video. You probably haven't seen them yet on YouTube. 

AUBREY MARCUS: I have. Vylana showed me. They're hilarious. 

DEBRA SILVERMAN: Or I knocked out the Scorpio part and I have 8 million views. It's embarrassing. I was 12 people within five minutes each and everyone got to see me act like a, like a schizophrenic. 

AUBREY MARCUS: Yeah.

DEBRA SILVERMAN: But it worked.

AUBREY MARCUS: Yeah.

DEBRA SILVERMAN: I didn't really know it was going to get so popular. But you can watch all of them. And so the short answer is that's one flavor of the 12 that deals with not just sex, but the deep desire to face death and be real and be honest and not be wobbly. Like they're very steady at their high level, at their low level, they're mean because they’re so pissed off at this place and they are not uninhibited to let you know that what you did pissed them off, you know, they have that quality. So. You know, when people have sex, did it feel good? Did it hurt? I don't know. The sounds are always so revealing. Like, are they liking that thing or does it hurt? That's what Scorpios like. 

AUBREY MARCUS: Right. 

DEBRA SILVERMAN: How come they're making those sounds? That's very Scorpio. I can't determine whether this feels good or this hurts. But if the kids were listening, they'd be going, Mom, are you okay? 

AUBREY MARCUS: Yeah. 

DEBRA SILVERMAN: Isn't that funny? 

AUBREY MARCUS: That is funny. It seems like a lot of this is about my sun sign and then, but there's so much more complexity in the sign. So like, if you're just starting out, like we all know our sun sign, right? Like everybody knows that it's part of a normal conversation. You can't get her anywhere around there without actually sharing that part. 

DEBRA SILVERMAN: It's been around for 4, 000 years. 

AUBREY MARCUS: It’s been around a long time. Where do you like to go next? So like for like a 

DEBRA SILVERMAN: To the moon. 

AUBREY MARCUS: To the moon. 

DEBRA SILVERMAN: Yep. 

AUBREY MARCUS: Okay. 

DEBRA SILVERMAN: The sun and the Moon are best friends. The moon's your inner world. Yours isn't sad. It's humor, it’s philosopher, it's the seeker, it's the athlete. It's the one that gets off on being full of qe. The moon tells us your emotional nature. It's up at night. So the sun is your ego up during the day, then the moon takes you in, and then the third category, which is the most important, is your time of birth, and that describes your rising sign. And yours is Pisces. So your, the rising sign, or the ascendant, is what you're rising into. It's your higher self. And it's based on the moment of your birth. So the fact that you're rising and your sun? are the same is why you're so Pisces, 

AUBREY MARCUS: Right.

DEBRA SILVERMAN: You're a double Pisces. So those three influences, that's how everyone calls the three pillars. I get kind of pissed off. Here we go. Because astrology can be cheap, like, oh, my sun, moon and rising, you know, nothing. Yeah. I mean, you know, enough to be dangerous. You're talking about it's not useless, but actually learning the science and massaging it and getting to know it requires study. This is ancient science.

AUBREY MARCUS: Right. Because so much is revealed when you were talking about where my mercury was and where my Venus at the zero degree. And there was so much that got really, really interesting. And that's what got me on board ultimately was, yeah, all right. There's some, you know, double part, there's some things about this that makes sense. But then as we got deeper, 

DEBRA SILVERMAN: That was so fun watching you

AUBREY MARCUS: As we got deeper. It was like, Oh, this is getting juicier and more interesting and more complex. 

DEBRA SILVERMAN: So that requires study and we have a school. And twice a year in September and January, your wife just did it. We have a level, six weeks, 10 people in a room and you study your chart. So I teach people in very simple English. This is what Aaron did. Aaron was brilliant, one of my best students I've ever had. 

AUBREY MARCUS: Yeah. 

DEBRA SILVERMAN: He learned it so quick. 

AUBREY MARCUS: He's really gifted

DEBRA SILVERMAN: He learned it as fast as I could talk, and then he got a tattoo on his arm, it was cute. The point of the story is, you have to study it, and be careful who you study with, and you will begin to collect information, there's lots of information, but the actual, I call it applied astrology at our school, to make it useful.

AUBREY MARCUS: Right.

DEBRA SILVERMAN: So you can go study it, and there's no end in sight. I mean, I am such an astrology addict. I just have to admit that you want to ask me, are you addicted? Yes, I'm addicted to it. I never get bored. Every chart I see, I'm like, wow, that makes so much sense. And it never seems to not fascinate me. 

AUBREY MARCUS: Yeah. One of the reasons why I particularly didn't believe in the rising sign of the chart was because of my own story with my mom. So my mom was in labor for a ridiculous amount of time and she was in labor all the way through the night and pushing and pushing and pushing, but actually her bones were actually too narrow for me to cross. 

DEBRA SILVERMAN: Right

AUBREY MARCUS: And the doctor was unavailable until the morning he was sleeping, so they couldn't do anything about it. So I was actually like if the doctor picked up the phone, I would have been born, eight hours earlier, 

DEBRA SILVERMAN: But he didn't. 

AUBREY MARCUS: But he didn't. And then, so I was like, well, that's fucking random. Like, why does this? But then I think of the synchronicities of the world and like in the mystery, just saying, Oh no, no, not yet. It's not time for this soul, you know, like stay asleep, Dr. Whoever the fuck you were, you know, and like pick up the phone now. And so then I start to think of all of these crazy synchronicities that I've had in my own life and all of the ways that the mystery has, and or what Matias calls the weaver has weaved things. And then now I look at it and go, Oh yeah, that was always supposed to be that way. It wasn't an accident that I was born when the doctor woke up and picked up his phone. 

DEBRA SILVERMAN: Totally. And it gets better. I didn't tell you this. Sun and Pisces, Moon and Sag was the same chart that Einstein had. 

AUBREY MARCUS: No pressure.

DEBRA SILVERMAN: And he studied time his whole life, and he studied synchronicity, and he took science. Look what he did. He pioneered our notion of science and relativity and time. by his sag, his score, his Pisces would hold two marbles in his hand and right before he fell asleep and dropped the marbles, he'd start to work. He would go into that Pisces dream state, didn't use medicine, and then his moon and sag was such a philosopher that he was quoted to say, in my distaste for authority, God made me one. That was so funny, he was such a rebellious guy. He was like, don't do that to me. I don't want to be an authority. And then he became one similar to you.

AUBREY MARCUS: Right. That makes sense. 

DEBRA SILVERMAN: So, interesting that you're both Sun and Pisces, Moon and Sag. 

AUBREY MARCUS: Yeah. 

DEBRA SILVERMAN: And that you both have this pioneering nature to go into a philosophical angle and then bring it back down. That's what he did too. 

AUBREY MARCUS: What do you find, do you feel like there's an active resistance from this materialist, reductionist, empiricist, rationalist world that just really doesn't want to believe in this because it forces them to believe in a higher power that they don't want to believe in. Is that? 

DEBRA SILVERMAN: That's exactly right. That's why medicine is so important. The whole zeitgeist is opening up to realizing why we keep ourselves addicted to a limited mind that sees in such small quarters and cannot open up the expanse to understanding the magic realm. Why would we do that? It's so boring. So now our society has been shmoo and astrology has gotten so popular. I mean, it's coming out now and saying that part of that is your work. Part of it is opening up people and saying, just consider what you can't let your mind understand. What does medicine do? It shuts off your left brain. That's it. We're going to talk to your right brain. We're going to give you directions and hope you'll listen. 

AUBREY MARCUS: Yeah. Are there other, like, competing schools of astrology from different other sides that are arguing with each other and trying to establish themselves as the dominant? 

DEBRA SILVERMAN: It's Vedic astrology. In Vedic astrology, you would be an Aquarius. So, there's a whole other system, and it's ancient, it's from the Eastern world, from India, and it's got great value for prediction, but it's completely different, and yes, they argue. Welcome to planet Earth. Everyone seems to have a fight about something. And then there's systems, I love all the stuff that's coming out with the human design, and being able to understand the Enneagram, and being able to understand the Numerology, and then we have Richard, who's doing the Gene Keys, and all of this stuff is our appetite, our starving appetite. Do you see me? Do you like me? How am I different? And can you remind me why I signed up? So all of those are tools to help you remember, what did I sign up for? And I just say, study them all, but choose one and go deep. I'm that person. Mastery comes with repetition. 

AUBREY MARCUS: Right. 

DEBRA SILVERMAN: And it takes many, many years. If I told you how long I've been doing this. It's crazy. And it came in a dream. 

AUBREY MARCUS: Yeah. Yeah. I think that's such a valuable thing because oftentimes we'll just learn a little bit. We'll be attracted to the little bit of superficial knowledge we can get, but the mastery goes deep. You know, Bruce Lee's quote, I fear not the man who knows a thousand kicks. I fear the man who's practiced one kick 10,000 times. 

DEBRA SILVERMAN: Bingo. 

AUBREY MARCUS: You know, like it's like, that's where mastery is. It's like the depth is 

DEBRA SILVERMAN: It’s repetition and it's routine and it's earth people who are not all supposed to, in this life, but it seems obvious that I had to do astrology from the very beginning. And I don't know. I think they put a drug in my head that said, you will love this till the end because it never gets boring. I'm like, is this going to wear off soon? Because I've never not been fascinated. 

AUBREY MARCUS: Yeah

DEBRA SILVERMAN: It is a funny thing. I do wonder about that. Like, do I have something in my blood that's different?

AUBREY MARCUS: Do you see people who decide that they just want to ups to see this and then they like, just say like, I'm going to go fucking totally different way. Is there a 

DEBRA SILVERMAN: Good luck with that

AUBREY MARCUS: Rebel nature? Yeah, it seems like 

DEBRA SILVERMAN: I mean they don’t come to see me if they're going to do that. They're usually people that aren't interested in astrology and they're resisting their character and they're putting a square hole in a round circle and it's uncomfortable. They're not coming from astrology. 

AUBREY MARCUS: It's almost like there's like a wind that's really kind of blowing you towards these different pathways and you can try and resist it, but it's just going to be headwind all the way. 

DEBRA SILVERMAN: The question you have to ask, and you and I have this in spades is how much do you trust that you're here to serve God? If you know your purpose at the end is going to be in a room face to face with your team and they're going to say to you, Oh, we noticed what you were doing. And by the way, try again, or if you finish this movie and they go, good job, we really saw your effort and boy, did it serve a lot of people. Come with us.

AUBREY MARCUS: That's beautiful. That's beautiful. Thank you so much. 

DEBRA SILVERMAN: Oh, this has been my pleasure. I mean, when I saw your chart at first, I was like, I don't know. I don't really understand Pisces, but I've learned so much about Pisces from you. It's real. I've learned so much in the last two days. 

AUBREY MARCUS: Yeah, and I've learned so much about myself, too, you know, and I tried to I was trying to write a book called master your mind and ultimately, I got to 70,000 words three times and failed because I realized that I couldn't actually disambiguate the mind from everything else that exists. So I basically was trying to write a book called Master the universe

DEBRA SILVERMAN: That's so double Pisces. Too big, too big. We went too big. We need to go bring it down.

AUBREY MARCUS: Scale it down. Scale it down. Get really practical and tactical about what could we do 

DEBRA SILVERMAN: Well that’s what I do in astrology, I scale it down, scale it down so it's super English and people can actually understand the elements to begin with and then start to ask themselves, what did I sign up for? What was I thinking when I took on this movie? 

AUBREY MARCUS: Yeah. Well, thank you star mom. It's been such a gift and I look forward to keeping in touch with you and letting you know how I'm doing on my assignment. 

DEBRA SILVERMAN: And for promoting that. ‘I don't believe in astrology’ just turned into ‘I do believe in astrology’.

AUBREY MARCUS: Yeah, totally. Totally. And I encourage people to all the skeptics out there like wait till you feel it yourself. 

DEBRA SILVERMAN: Bingo.

AUBREY MARCUS: Don't take my word for it. Just allow yourself to go deep, find a master and like allow yourself to be open minded enough to see and see what resonates.

DEBRA SILVERMAN: Thank you. 

AUBREY MARCUS: Yeah, absolutely. So much love to you. 

DEBRA SILVERMAN: So much love. 

AUBREY MARCUS: Yeah. And so much love to all of you. Thanks for tuning in, everybody. We love you. Goodbye.